Silver Wire Pickups

[olrocknroller]

Wow Brinkman, that is what I call an in-depth cost-benefit analysis! Hobby-builders and small manufacturers rarely have access to that kind of quality information, so thank you!

[Brinkman]

Wow Brinkman, that is what I call an in-depth cost-benefit analysis! Hobby-builders and small manufacturers rarely have access to that kind of quality information, so thank you!

Well, you're welcome. Honestly, I've spent the last half dozen years or so reading audio forums and building audio kits, so I'm familiar the audiophile justification of using silver wire where efficiency and "coloration" are concerns. However, coming across vaguely scientific justifications for it's use in an area where "coloration" (tone) is everything strikes me as counter-intuitive.

question for ya. after Teflon, what is the next best coated wire to buy? and maybe this is a stupid question, but what's the difference between enameled wire, and plain enameled wire? plain enamel meaning the brownish colored wire that is what people look for on vintage PAF pickups.

To answer your question here, I should clarify that teflon is not necessarily the best enamel material.

The best way to think of it is this: forgetting completely about guitar pickups, try to imagine an ideal inductor (don't worry if you are unfamiliar with electronics!). An ideal inductor of some value would be purely inductive, in the same way that the "perfect resistor" would be purely resistive and the "perfect capacitor" would be purely capacitive. In the real word, all these aforementioned components are imperfect and by extension, so are the circuits and devices we build with them. In fact, I'd wager that a good 50% of circuit design is knowing how to correctly anticipate and compensate for these imperfections, but that's besides the point.

In electronics, these various imperfections are often referred to as "parasitics" and a very useful example of this would be the parasitic capacitance that exists between the many winds of an inductor (also called a "coil" referring to it's resemblance to a coil of wire). The greater the number of turns of wire, the longer the total length of wire (multiplying the unit resistance of whatever gauge wire used per foot, meter, etc.) and the greater the resulting parasitic capacitance due to the many winds. In audio use, it is parasitic capacitance that dictates the high-frequency limits of both transformers and vacuum tubes. One way to get to the desired value of inductance without as many winds (thus minimizing resistance and parasitic capacitance) is to insert a ferromagnetic substance in or near the core of the inductor. Depending on it's use and construction, this device goes under different names, such as iron-cored inductor, electromagnetic transducer or "pickup."

Understanding these basic ingredients as to what comprises a guitar pickup means we can anticipate how different manufacturing specifications will change a pickup's look and tone. For instance, a pickup with a lot of winds (like the pickups in a Mosrite) is going to have a greater output than one wound on the same core with the same ingredients but fewer winds. However, with this change in output also comes a change in all the stuff we mentioned above (inductance, capacitance), so the transfer function, or tone, changes slightly as well.

To really drive the point home, a switch from #43 gauge wire to #42 (a larger diameter wire) requires that, wound to equal inductances, the #42 wound pickup will be slightly larger (though having less turns), will weigh more and have less resistance. If instead of changing wire gauge we changed the enamel type, the degree of parasitic capacitance would either be higher or lower, depending on the dielectric qualities of that specific insulators under consideration. Formvar has slightly different characteristics than polymide which has different characteristics from teflon. Furthermore, using a stronger magnet in the core is going to increase the amount of magnetic flux concentration, which in turn "drags" on the strings more, draining sustain. For that matter, increasing the mass of your strings (i.e. going to a higher gauge) provides the pickup with a higher mass signal source, which increases it's output.

As far as directly answering the second part of your question goes, I'd hazard a guess that at some point in the original PAF production run the wire type was changed. Even if it was to a wire of the same gauge with the same basic pickup recipe, the enamel could have been of a different thickness, material or thickness and material. As a rule, if it was a change to a better or thicker insulator then the resonant frequency would be correspondingly higher.

[oipunkguy]

i guess what I'm looking for is if you could list all the different types of coated copper wire, and the characteristics of each, and maybe pros and cons of using each type if there is any.

[Veenture]

Interesting certainly, for the sake of discussion Aaron (or what you are aiming at) but in the big scheme of guitar playing there are sooo many more factors that contribute to the sound and tone a player is searching for. Today there are still Shadows fans trying their level best to get "That Sound" and discussion forums are full of it. The type of amp and the settings on it is 'just' one of those factors. I know I've found 'my sound', silver wire pickups or not

[Brinkman]

i guess what I'm looking for is if you could list all the different types of coated copper wire, and the characteristics of each, and maybe pros and cons of using each type if there is any.

There's a table here along with some heavy reading.

Interesting certainly, for the sake of discussion Aaron (or what you are aiming at) but in the big scheme of guitar playing there are sooo many more factors that contribute to the sound and tone a player is searching for.

I agree completely.

It was a desire to get my head out of my studies and back into playing that brought me to this forum in the first place.

[oipunkguy]

my propose in asking is so I become more educated in picking out wire when I build my own pickups. That was the reason I started this thread in the first place....

[Veenture]

my propose in asking is so I become more educated in picking out wire when I build my own pickups. That was the reason I started this thread in the first place....

I for one am glad you did start the thread, Aaron. The introduction of silver wired pups by Mr. Duncan certainly provokes discussion! A propos, have you asked Seymour yet where/how he gets his silver thread?
-Paul

[olrocknroller]

This was an excellent discussion folks, and ultimately very educational, thanks to some experts chiming in. This is the kind of thread I look for every day on this forum! Rock on!