Zero Fret on my Custom 60, plus pickup magnet spacing

[raygun85]

WOW, what a great thread. I really liked the pictures showing the magnetic fields of the pickups. I never have paid attention to the position of the pickup poles under the strings. My main concern is that the guitar plays according to my liking and gives the sound through my amps that I am looking for. I guess if we want to get technical we have to look at the gauge of wiring, how tight the coil is wound, how large the magnetic bar is, the amount of magnetic field generated by the magnet, how flat the coils are and many other parameters including how the type of metal in the strings react to the magnetic flux. Oh my this can get complicated real fast. Me thinks I will just stay with if it makes me smile when I hit a chord or note I'll be satisfied!!!

We already have...why don't we throw in a new discussion about eddy current effects while we're at it?

P.s. The strings don't react to magnetic flux. They actually alter it.

[raygun85]

Bob's arguments have convinced me that pickup pole-piece spacing doesn't matter and is actually just more of the hype and the hooey that I've been trying to combat all along. Therefore, after taking his arguments into consideration, we've decided to design an all new pickup that reduces the magnetic flux density along with eddy current losses. May we now introduce the Tri-Pole!

[JimPage]

Yes, this is a great thread! I'm learning a lot and having fun doing it.

MOSDAN wrote:
>>if it makes me smile when I hit a chord or note I'll be satisfied!!!

Yep; I'm in that camp. After all, where the strings are at rest alters pretty quick once you strum the guitar! It all is interesting, though, and full of hours and hours of wholesome fun, as the old ads used to say in the back of the comic books!

Matt, that Tri-Pole pickup is actually kind of cool looking. What's your take on the Fender pickups-- were they Jaguars?-- where Leo had a pole on either side of the string? That was mentioned in the "Fender: The Golden Age" book I recently read. I don't think I've ever seen or heard one of those guitars in person.

--Jim

[raygun85]

Yes, this is a great thread! I'm learning a lot and having fun doing it.

MOSDAN wrote:
>>if it makes me smile when I hit a chord or note I'll be satisfied!!!

Yep; I'm in that camp. After all, where the strings are at rest alters pretty quick once you strum the guitar! It all is interesting, though, and full of hours and hours of wholesome fun, as the old ads used to say in the back of the comic books!

Matt, that Tri-Pole pickup is actually kind of cool looking. What's your take on the Fender pickups-- were they Jaguars?-- where Leo had a pole on either side of the string? That was mentioned in the "Fender: The Golden Age" book I recently read. I don't think I've ever seen or heard one of those guitars in person.

--Jim

The Tri-Pole is just a joke. The pickups you're referring to were a Jazzmaster prototype that Leo built and was never released to the public. From what I remember, Leo was experimenting with the magnetic flux density, trying to make sure that the field lines overlapped so that the output would be even from string to string. He was essentially trying to avoid the problem which is the very heart of the topic we've been discussing on this thread. He did end up employing a similar concept with double pole-pieces on the Jazz Bass.

Curtis Novak has resurrected this concept. You can even order it from his website: http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/jm-7.shtml

[MOSDAN]

P.s. The strings don't react to magnetic flux. They actually alter it.

Raygun85,
I think we are both correct on this issue. The strings do alter the magnetic flux thus giving the signal to be amplified, however, the string vibration can also be altered by the magnetic field effect on the steel in the strings yielding a change in the wave characteristic of the string vibration. This many times leads to a reduction in sustain. I haven't noticed this so much in single coil pickups but mostly in humbuckers where the strings are set too close to the pickup. In some cases I have seen, when working on guitars for people, they can't even get harmonics for tuning with pickups almost touching the strings. Just lowering the pickups a small amount takes care of the issue and they are happy campers.

Oh yeah, I kind of like the classic look of the pickup with 3 polepieces. I remember years ago when Hartley Peavey had the Super Ferrite pickup in his "T" series guitars and they had no polepieces but were actually a good sounding pickup, especially in the T-60. Great guitars of a bygone era.

[raygun85]

You're right. I was looking at it from the viewpoint that the mechanical energy (EMF) produced by string vibrations modifies the flux, thereby inducing an electric current throughout the wire in the coil. I wasn't looking at it from the angle that the magnets themselves have a direct effect on the strings.

Speaking of humbuckers, I remember reading somewhere that, using steel pole-pieces helps to concentrate the flux lines under the strings because it has a higher permeability. That is probably also why you experience more string-pull on humbuckers. I've noticed something similar with P-90 type pickups (including the Mosrite style pickups.) In my own experience, it seems that blade humbuckers are a little less susceptible to string-pull. I've always suspected that, perhaps it's due to a more balanced magnetic field across the entire width of the strings. I think that was what Lace was going for when designing the Sensors. Same deal with Carvin doubling up their pole-pieces.

[olrocknroller]

I never thought much about the dynamics of pickups and strings before, being a "buy it and stick it on" kind of guy where pickups were concerned. ...This thread has opened up a whole new series of "tinkering" options for me! ...Next project, building a pickup winder!