Sarah's pickups restauration.

[raygun85]

Just read back over this thread and realized my last post may have sounded argumentative. Just wanted to say that I didn't mean for it to sound that way, I sincerely want to know what material the break-away magnets are made from and what, if any, real difference in tone there is. I have many break-away bars at the shop for comparison. From research and from experimentation I haven't noticed any difference.

[Dennisthe Menace]

Could you give us an example? I can't hear the difference. What material are the break-away magnets made of? Alnico? From what I have studied about magnetism and electricity in college, I can't see a direct correlation in the break-away design and tone. The only thing that would have any bearing is the magnetic field and the gauss (as you mentioned.) Thats why I make sure my magnets are charged at the same strength before installing them in a pickup. But could you give me a rundown of exactly how the the little ridges in the back of the magnet affect the tone?

....and if they are Alnico, which one? Are they the IIs, Vs or the 8s?? This is a very educational discussion for us (that have no clue.... ).

BTW- Not to get off the subject but-

The original guitar that Gene Moles lent to Nokie Edwards in 1963 that sold recently has my pickups in it now.

Bob, maybe you can elaborate on that....??

[oigun]

Interesting discussion! I think because all the pickups are handwound and I assume by different people on a different day and in a different mood, no two (handcrafted)pickups exactly sound the same.
I further noticed in one pickup the ridges are faced up and at the other the ridges are faced down. I can Imagine that magnets with ridges will have a different magnetic field than smooth magnets.

[Dennisthe Menace]

[......> I can Imagine that 'magnets with ridges' will have a different magnetic field than smooth magnets.

Oooh boy, let's not get Frito Lay nervous .....http://youtu.be/tbiN3P5_D4E

[JimPage]

Dan got the record label correct as it was the Beatles. Album was (American version) Rubber Soul!

Beach Boys records also looked like that for a while.

--Jim

[Bob Shade]

Good morning to all,

To answer a couple of topic notes, on the break away bar magnet topic, first thing is, in the old days, way before our time when the dinosaurs roamed the earth........well maybe not that long ago........., the break away bar magnets were created to be a low cost product to be sold at your local hardware store, or drug store etc. They advertised on the packaging that you could break each piece off with a pair of pliers to be used seperately! One company was called Magic Magnets! They came in a package in two little strips of 8 double row segs per strip. Holds notes to refrigerators, office files, dash boards (maybe back then) metal bulletin boards, etc. Just a few of many uses for Magic Magnets, it stated. I guess Semie is proof of that.

So now we know what the break away magnets were designed for right? Just about anything. being they were in a strip and Semie needed a bar magnet, why not?

So why do they have a different character to the tone? One theory could be simply that it is not the same exact amount of metal being used as the exact size of the bar mags. With all the ridges there is less metal right?

Also there are different grades of metal, for example you can get brass in various grades. Semie seemed to think that the break aways sounded unique. I am of the thinking that all magnets sound good in their own way. Alot has to do with how you apply it. For example, the way you wind the pickup bobbin has alot to do with the character of the sound too. We have been winding bobbinless pickups for a long time as well, and those also sound fantastic in the right application.

About the Gene Moles Mosrite.........I was visiting Andy Moseley in Nashville, and and Elaine were getting some guitars put back together that had been in parts for years. Andy did not have pickups for Genes old guitar for some reason they were gone. So I wound some coils about 14K and supplied parts and Elaine assembled them in Andy's covers that were similar to the 50's style cover and installed them into the guitar that started it all. One cool butt guitar!

We offer a 59 Custom guitar that is very much like the Gene Moles guitar. It costs about $40 grand less too.

I was not thinking my record player would become a topic of conversation, but yes I have to get my groove on in the shop sometimes. Plus I have alot of lp's in the office and you got to keep em spinning from time to time. My Dad was going to throw this little player in the trash, so now it is my shop record player. Pretty snazzy huh?

Speaking of the Beach Boys Jim, we are traveling to London Ontario this weekend as we were invited to get involved at the Fleetwood Country Cruize In at the Steve Plunket estate. It is one of the largest car events and the Beach Boys are performing on Fri. eve. We are going to auction off a Hallmark Swept-Wing guitar custom painted with palm trees. It will be autographed by the Beach Boys and auctioned off on stage with the band and we are donating all of the proceeds to the charity at the event. So anyone in the neighborhood should come join the fun, there will be hundreds of show cars and we will be displaying our guitars at the Mel's Diner where the Barris booth is.

Would you like fries and a shake with that Wing-Bat guitar sir? Blood shake? Yes sir. We aim to please.

Bob

[Dennisthe Menace]

About the Gene Moles Mosrite.........I was visiting Andy Moseley in Nashville, and and Elaine were getting some guitars put back together that had been in parts for years. Andy did not have pickups for Genes old guitar for some reason they were gone. So I wound some coils about 14K and supplied parts and Elaine assembled them in Andy's covers that were similar to the 50's style cover and installed them into the guitar that started it all. One cool butt guitar!

Thanks Bob.......

[raygun85]

Hey Bob,
thanks for shedding some more light on the break-away magnets. Do you happen to know what material they were made of?
Anyhow, these days most fridge magnets are made of low-grade ceramic. I would wager the break-aways you have on hand are probably not ceramic. Fillmore is using cheap ceramic magnets in their pickups and they sound nothing like the vintage pickups. I have experimented with ceramic in our pickups too and come nowhere close to the vintage tone. I'm pretty sure they're probably not ceramic.

As for the ridges...some of the break-away magnets I have are thicker than others. Some from the 60's have ridges that aren't more than 3-4mm deep. While some are more square looking and others are more triangular. In the break-away magnets I pulled out of some pickups from the 70's, they are deeper with a thin layer on the top of the magnet. Again, with all the variables, I'm trying to understand how any of this translates into a distinguishable difference in tone?

I can easily purchase thicker Alnico bars and grind ridges into them out in the shop. And, like I mentioned earlier, I have a guy who can cast them however I want if I'm willing to front the cost. So I could easily acquire my own source. But that is the problem...everything I know about electromagnetism and inductance tells me the ridges are just another piece of the hooey that is constantly floating around on message forums, music shops, and backstages....

Maybe we could do a side-by-side comparison? When I get time, I'll record an audition of a vintage Mosrite pickup against a Hallmark, and one of our RH-100's. Anyone have a set of Fillmores or Ed's pickups they'd like to loan us for the experiment? I think the results could be very beneficial. I'll use the same microphone, same amplifier, same guitar so we can eliminate some of the variables.

[Sarah93003]

I think I have very good ears but I don't know if I could detect the subtle difference between similar pickups. Is there a graphical or computerized representation that illustrates tone?

[raygun85]

I think I have very good ears but I don't know if I could detect the subtle difference between similar pickups. Is there a graphical or computerized representation that illustrates tone?

You can use an oscilloscope or a "pickup analyzer" - though there is some doubt as to their accuracy. However, this is one of those situations where I've always said 'you have to trust your ears.' If you have to hook the pickup up to a device so that you can SEE the difference, then what's the point?